MarKKK Vandermaas: VoC slandered again (yipee!)

UPDATE June 04/10: Gary McHale advised me some time ago that he has evidence proving that on Dec 28/06 two OPP officers travelled to New York state to meet with a native private investigator named Jon Sabin regarding McHale’s activities in Caledonia. Immediately afterwards he began the defamation campaign discussed in this article to smear us with false allegations of being white supremacists.

In addition to spreading these lies on discussion boards Sabin also created a phony ‘white supremacist’ website and posted racist material as if it was written by Gary McHale.  Sabin’s identity as the creator was discovered when York Regional Police investigated McHale’s complaint regarding identity theft. This matter was mentioned in an ongoing lawsuit against OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino for defamation: see clause 157 on page 45 of this statement of claim [PDF, 49p].

Journalists can contact Gary McHale (info@canace.ca) for a copy of the York Regional Police report. A transcript of OPP testimony confirming the OPP visit with Sabin is available here:

Note that the OPP refused repeated requests by McHale to turn over the audio tape of their interview with Sabin.  McHale alleges that his comments were very selectively quoted during Detective Murray’s testimony. 

The charge against McHale was stayed by the Crown following the laying of Obstructing Charges against two senior officers involved in his case. See link above.

UPDATED 0007 EST Jan 17/07: VoiceofCanada.ca apologizes for inadvertently accusing ‘Ed’ of creating the phoney neo-Nazi site that supporters of the Caledonia criminals tried to link me with prior to the October 15, 2007 March for Freedom. Please see details of my apology below at the bottom of the post. 
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Once again we get to stroll through the ‘How Low Can They Go?’ Department. It’s going to be fun – I promise – but you’ll have to watch out for the slime…

mark_vandermaas_62×88px_b-w.gifI received a call from Gary McHale this morning to let me know that someone on an online forum is claiming that he is working with both the Hamilton Spectator and the OPP to expose our non-existent connections to white supremacist organizations. Apparently, this person has stated that I am a member of a hate group and that I brought a group of white supremacists into Caledonia for the October 15/06 March for Freedom.

crowd_laughing_at_village_idiot.jpgExcuse me for a moment until I stop laughing.

Long time readers may recall an article I posted on VoC called, “Caledonia criminals sink to a new low – if that’s possible” in which I relate the rather amusing tale (it wasn’t funny at the time) of how a supporter of the DCE criminals took my March For Freedom video, posted it on a phoney neo-Nazi site created just one day before the March, and then went into the forums to ‘expose’ me as a racist. I called the owner of the web domain and told him the allegations were false and asked him to take the post down.

Well, it’s that time again – a few days before a March for Freedom event, and the people who would have you believe that it’s OK to use violence to get what they want are at it – again – trying to do everything they can to discredit us with phoney accusations of connections to hate groups. Man, don’t they ever get tired of this? That’s the best they’ve got? No real arguments? Just silly, unfounded name-calling from anonymous sources?

OK…here’s the story – again. The names and dates may be different, but – believe me -the ending’s the same…

Yesterday (Jan 15/07), I was interviewed by Marissa Nelson from the Hamilton Spectator for about an hour. She told me that the purpose of the interview was to get my personal perspective on Gary McHale since I have spent quite a bit of time with him and working with him in the fight against Two Tier Justice. This was to be research for an upcoming interview with Gary called, “Ten Questions for Gary McHale.”  Marissa recently wrote a similar article for the Spec called, “Five Questions for Julian Fantino.” (I didn’t ask her why Gary gets 10 questions vs. Fantino’s five, but the disparity didn’t escape me. :-))

We covered a lot of ground, so I’m going to reconstruct our conversation as best I can with respect to the alleged ‘hate’ connections. I didn’t record it, but perhaps Marissa did. I will be as accurate as I can, subject to her recording, if available:

At one point in the interview, she asked me if I had met any members of a particular hate group that is active in London. I was a little taken aback by the question, but I told her that I’d read about them in the London Free Press, but I certainly never knowingly met anyone connected to them or any other hate group.

She asked if we had tried to get support from “outside groups or organizations.” I explained that I thought it was a good idea, but we’d been too busy to do much in the way of that.  I told her that we had sent news releases to the Royal Canadian Legion, and that we were in the process of creating a new organization that would raise funds to support people and projects that were trying to fight for justice and equal rights.

She then suggested that perhaps a certain individual and his group could help since he had linked to my post called, “13 Reasons why you need to be in Caledonia, Ontario on January 20/07.” I thought she was being helpful, so I asked her for the website address and began writing it down. I asked her what kind of organization it was. She said, “Well, they are advocates for free speech.” I asked, “It isn’t a hate group, is it?” She seemed unsure at first, and then said, “Well, yes…it could be.” I got the impression that she had the website up and was looking at it for the first time.

I replied that we wouldn’t want to taint what we were doing by having any connections to such a group. I told her that what we’re doing is about ‘equality’ not ‘supremacy’ and my idea of the type of an organization to approach would be one like the Canadian Civil Liberties Association.

For those who aren’t familiar with the CCLA, here’s some info from their site:

“Since then [1964] the CCLA has spoken out on hundreds of issues, from film censorship to the rights of welfare recipients not to be harassed by government officials, from forced religious teaching in the schools to the rights of political groups to demonstrate in the streets.

“Over the years, active CCLA members have included some of Canada’s most well known names in law, journalism, politics, the arts, labour, business and other fields. Our founding president was former Ontario judge and lieutenant-governor J. Keiller MacKay, and early activists included prominent journalists Pierre Berton, June Callwood and Barbara Frum. Political leaders such as Allan Blakeney and Dalton Camp have been active as have top names in the legal field, such as Louise Arbour and Edward Greenspan.

“The fight against abuse of state authority has not always won popularity contests for the CCLA, but the association has earned widespread respect for its principled stands on such issues as censorship, capital punishment, and police powers [author’s emphasis].

“Our strategy has always been to raise hell without breaking the law.”

Hmmmm…sounds a lot like what Gary McHale is doing. How come nobody’s calling the CCLA racists?

Back to the story…

I also told Marissa that, in the whole time I have been involved in the fight against Two Tier Justice that I have never – even once – heard Gary McHale make a racial slur against native people.

[Click these links to read Gary’s views on racism: “Jan 8/07 – Native Protesters and KKK share ideology” “Jan 1/07 – Christian Extremists=Muslim Extremists=Native Extremists.“]

Marissa and I talked about other stuff like when I first met Gary; do we disagree on anything? (Sometimes) Would I consider him my friend? (Yes) How I would describe him as a person? (focussed, honest, un-intimidatable, in-corruptible, well-read) What are our respective strengths? (Gary is a brilliant, logical, strategic thinker who knows what to do today to accomplish while I am a big picture person who likes to wonder, what if?).

We also talked about Gary’s philosophy that he can’t control what’s going to happen tomorrow, but we can control how we use it to our advantage. For example, thanks to people making outrageous and unfounded allegations against us, Gary’s been able to get on CHTV today (Jan 16/07), and he’s scheduled to do another TV interview on Friday.

Plus, I’m getting to write this post to remind readers exactly what kind of twisted tactics our opponents will use to try to keep us from standing up against the violent criminals who have terrorized Caledonia. It also reminds them that we will not be intimidated into abandoning our fight against Two Tier Justice.

As mentioned in the beginning of this post, the individual slandering us claims that he is working with the Hamilton Spectator and the OPP to expose our non-existent connections to hate groups. I have been in contact with the Hamilton Spectator to make them aware that this disgusting tactic was used against us before. Here is what I have been told by a source at the Spec:

“…the kinds of questions you’re talking about – combined with these postings you mention (this is the first I’ve heard of them) – mean we’d be irresponsible not to check that out. I also am well aware that linking people to white racist movements is a handy smear tactic – I spent six years or so investigating Canada’s racist right wing , so I’m well aware of that. I’m sure Marissa is too. I wouldn’t be too upset by the questions – asking questions is how we separate fact from fiction.”

slime_cartoon.jpgTo our supporters, and the people of Caledonia – don’t be too angry. While we never like to hear our good names slandered, it is amusing to watch these people cover themselves in slime as they destroy their own credibility in the process. They never seem to learn, so let’s sit back and watch the fun – don’t miss CHTV news tonight

VoC NOTE: During the footage located at the CHTV link above, Gary McHale names an individual who he says is responsible for spreading the slander against us through the occupation-related forums. VoC is not in possession of any evidence that directly names this individual. VoC does, however, have a copy of a forum discussion where some bizarre and false allegations against McHale and I are made by the moderator of the forum known as “Drupjohn.” From the content, it appears they were provided by a forum member named ‘Skywoman.’  We will be contacting ‘Drupjohn’ formally after the next March for Freedom event on January 20th to ask him to print an apology and remove the statements from his forum. 

Mark Vandermaas, Editor
VoiceofCanada.ca

Voice of Canada Apology – we were wrong and we’re sorry.

Edbeatle4.blogspot.com |

Mark…. You really should get your facts straight before you post things and end up looking like an ass. You posted, and I quote

“a phoney neo-Nazi site created just one day before the March, and then went into the forums to ‘expose’ me as a racist. Unfortunately for them, they got caught with their pants down when the other members of the forum ran him out of the forum”.

The truth is, I received an e-mail accusing McHale of the association with the racist site. I posted a question and the info about it trying to get clarification as to the legitimacy of that claim and was verbally assaulted by McHale, [xxxxx] and you. I never claimed to know who made the site, I never accused anyone of belonging to it and I sure as hell was not kicked off any boards anywhere because of it. To date, both McHale and [xxxxx]have admitted that I had nothing to do with it. You though seem to think it only furthers your goal by continually posting this but I can tell you right now that the majority of posters, both the 49th parallel group and the reclam group, know I had nothing to do with it.

VoC REPLY: Hi Ed. Thank you for writing and clarifying. I have no desire to do to others what has been so viciously done to us. After discussing your letter at length with Gary McHale, let me address the issues that you raised as well as your own understanding of what happened. If you think I’ve got it wrong, we’ll try again. Here goes:

1. The key issue here is that you are saying that I incorrectly accused you in my original post and in this post as being the one who created the phoney neo-Nazi site and then was ‘run out of the site’ by other forum members in disgrace.

You are 100% correct in saying that, after you took a lot of heat on the forum when somone accused you of creating the site, and said that you were quitting the forum, I did believe that it was you that created the site. When I posted the original story, I included a link to the thread which would have, in turn, led people to believe that you created the phoney site when in fact, as I have come to believe only today, that you did not.

2. I would like to sincerely apologize for not being as accurate as I try to be when writing VoiceofCanada, and I am very sorry if my mistake caused you embarassment. 

3. I thank you for bringing my mistake to the attention of me and my readers.

4. I will correct this post and the original post ASAP and I will post these comments at the bottom of both posts rather than as comments. If you still feel they are not accurate, please contact me and we’ll try again.

In fairness to VoC, I would like to bring the following to your attention:

1. You said you were “verbally assaulted” by McHale, [xxxxx] and me. I have never posted on the 49th Parallel. I did complete a registration form after the neo-Nazi site discussion, but I have never actually posted. In fact, I can’t recall ever having visited the forum even once after registering. This, of course, meant that I was not privy to the subsequent discussions and exchanges that would have revealed that you were not the one who created the site.

In conversation, Gary sometimes mentions what is being discussed on the 49th Parallel as I understand he was very active on the forum prior to being banned for what he says were false allegations that he ‘threatened’ the mayor because he said that he would work against her in the next election. As someone outside the forum I find it hard to keep up with what Gary tells me is going on inside the forum, and it is possible that he did mention it at some point in passing. I hope you can believe that, had I known earlier, I would have corrected my posts. It never occurred to me to return to check back on the 49th to follow the thread because, as I recall, you said you were quitting the forum. 

In summary, I did not verbally attack you on the 49th because I have never posted there.

2. You said that Gary McHale was one of those who ‘verbally assaulted’ you. Gary has advised me that you have admitted that he never accused you of being connected to creation of the phoney neo-Nazi site. He says that it was [xxxxx] and only [xxxxx] who accused you of this. Gary also advises that he has posted on the ‘reclamation’ site that he believes that you had nothing to do with it.

In summary, it is clear to me that Gary McHale does not believe that you had anything to do with creation of the site, and he says that he never accused you of doing so. Do you have any links/posts etc. that would prove otherwise? If you do, I will be happy to review them and question Gary. I must tell you that, in all the time I have known Gary, he has never lied to me or misled me in any way, so – in the absence of evidence to the contrary – I am inclined to take his word.

3. You said, “I sure as hell was not kicked off any boards anywhere because of it [creating the site]” I can understand how you would think that I meant that you had been ‘kicked off’ or ‘banned’ because of my use of the words that you were “ran out of the forum.” My recollection is that you were being accused by other forum members, that you were very angry at the accusations, and that you said you were quitting the forum. This is why I used a phrase like “ran off” rather than ‘kicked out.’ Frankly, I’m not sure the distinction matters – especially to you – since I do now believe that you did not create the phoney site, and you left the forum in justifiable anger at the accusations.

Ed, I hope I have now set the record straight for all to see – that Gary believes as do I that you had no connection to the creation of the phoney neo-nazi site and I hope you will forgive me for getting ‘it’ wrong. I really do try to be as accurate as possible, but I did fall short on this one. It seems that both of us were mixed up on some ‘facts’, but mine was the greater error. Thanks so much for writing. VoiceofCanada is better because you did, and I appreciate it.

Regards,

Mark Vandermaas, Editor
VoiceofCanada.ca

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6 responses to “MarKKK Vandermaas: VoC slandered again (yipee!)

  1. This is the area i grew up in ,and my family is from there for generations and yes we are of mixed blood . And i am proud of my bloodline. Although i am very ashamed of the apartidist behavour of the people of the caledonia area.

    This is a very serious problem, and it must be fairly resolved with six nations , if this is an inconvienonce to the residents of caledonia, then it is the canadian goverments problem to satisfy them , but not at the cost of justice long over due ,to the people of six nations . This entire mess is a rude slap in the face to six nations and all those whom were involved in the 1812 struggle.

    If these mouthpeices at of Caledonia and at chtv were to ever sit down and study their history, they would see that these lands are the given properties of six nations and that the socalled treaties of purchase were never honoured by a proper payment to six nations.

    If i were to to do business in this fashion with any of these Caledonia whiners, they would be at my door, in vigilante mobs , clammering for justice. Speaking of justice, can we really obtain any kind of justice from a judge that has a vast personal involvement in the outcome of these proceedings , i in way am attempting to suggest in any way the h.j.marshall , would consciously attempt to sway justice , but he does live and own a considerable tract of lands in the grand river valley area, and this I think is unfair to all parties , including h.j. Marshall to be involved .

    If you look up the sales treaties of the lands between the Grand River Navigation co. with Six Nations, you will also see where because of apartidist/indian affairs act attitudes of the time , that the payments were never made to the Six Nations , but supposedly invested on their behalf into the purchasing company ie. ,the Grand River Navigation Co., which then went bankrupt , leaving the Six Nations without payment . If i attempted such a scam, would it be so easily swept under the rug of time?

    I Hear all kinds of clammering about injustice to blacks and jews,everyone else that can still say they have a peoples home or place of origin to visit , they are not in danger of genocide as a race of man or a ethnic culture, although the plight of First Nations and inuit is not given the same considerations . If you look at the percentage of Natives in comparison to the percentage of Non-natives just in north america , then remember that this is the gene pool gobally,isn’t it appearant that there is a vast injustice to First Nations .

    Going into another view of this the media and the goverment are chain rattling about racism toward immigrants and people of novel and distinct features, and how european descent canadians are not accepting this large influx of people to our home, but at the same time not one peep about forging real tyes of respect for and with the original inhabitants of this land, only trimmings to give the international community an illusion of racial equality in canada.

    In fact Canada is moving backward in the area of equality, as in the area of political separation from religion to establish a truly just democratic society. It is time to correct the injustices to the First Nations as a platform to justice for all, and a future to be proud of in the building of a nation of nations . Anything less is a fraud.

    VoC REPLY: Hi Terry. I’m really glad you wrote. I’m a little sleep deprived right now as it’s 2:22 AM. I wish I could give you more time, but let me give you some quick feedback, OK?

    1. You really sound like a reasonable guy, so you have to know in your heart that the people in Caledonia aren’t ‘whiners.’ They are terrified, yet they have remained relatively peaceful. They certainly have not responded ‘in kind’ to the extreme provocations committed by the criminals who have terrorized their town. Neither have the people of Ipperwash who are currently being terrorized by native criminals who are apparently untouchable by the OPP. I don’t know what your traditional laws are, but I bet they don’t allow one of your people to victimize other human beings. Why should Canadian laws be different.

    2. I have often said on this site that I know very little of land claims or your culture or the history of what my government has done to you. One day, I will rectify that. All my writing, however, has been dedicated to convincing native people of good will that using violence to solve land claims cannot be the way, that living in a country with no rule of law, with no accountability for one’s actions is a recipe for disaster. Can I suggest that you read a great post/discussion I had with a reader who wrote in to disagree with me. He’s a proud Iroquois named Terry (coincidence!) Jamieson Jr., and he helped me understand a little about him and I helped him understand a little about me. The post starts off a little shakey, but the ending is pretty good. Here’s the link.

    3. In fairness to me, I would have appreciated that you said something against the people who are spreading terrible lies about me. I suspect you know that I’m a fair guy, otherwise you wouldn’t have taken the time to try to educate me on your point of view. If you want me to acknowledge your pain, I’m asking you to acknowledge the awful (and dangerous!) things said about me.

    Thanks so much for writing. I really mean it. Regards, Mark

  2. Jeff Parkinson

    See now this is real journalism taking place and the media in general should watch and learn.

    I hope that Ed can understand that on this side of the fight, information and developments are chaotic at the best of times. Misinformation is being fed to everyone at every level on a daily basis and weeding out what is and is not BS is no easy task. I can imagine your outrage at being accused of something you did not do, but please try to imagine how it feels to have this happen to you on a constant basis as Mark and Gary do.

    Having said that, how many other media outlets of any kind would immediately post an apology and an in depth explanation of how the error occured? None that I have personally seen.

    I also hope that Ed can understand that Gary & Mark have to take measures to defend themselves from relentless attacks on their character, mistakes are bound to happen and gentlemen like Gary & Mark would never go out of their way to attack someone who is innocent. That’s the exact opposite of what this entire fight is about.

    To those who really are responsible for the bit of chaos that has been created here today, you should take note that anything you do or try to do is in the end exposed as total BS and every shot you fire winds up leading to more publicity for our cause.

    On a brief side note, there was plenty of political effort to stop the original March for Freedom in October, but the pressure leading up to this rally on the 20th seems to eclipse that in my humble opinion. What’s about to happen is going to blow the lid off of things that every level of government and the OPP never expected and are now desperately scrambling to keep from being revealed to the general public.

    Nothing anyone can say or do is going to stop this from happening and on January 20th, 2007 a major piece of history is going to be made!

    VoC REPLY: Hi Jeff! Thanks so much for the great compliments re the ‘journalism’ stuff. Wow. You know, I’ve been reading your stuff for a while now, and I think you’re no slouch at writing yourself. Why don’t you get a WordPress.com blog yourself and give ‘er a go?

    In fairness to VoC, I took a few minutes to visit Ed’s own blog and found some pretty interesting statements that seemed ‘less than accurate’ and/or just plain name-calling that should never have made it past the keyboard. Here’s an example:

    “Everyone says there is a 2-tiered set of laws when it comes to Caledonia residents and the Native population but I think if you look at the people who have been arrested, you’ll see there is no prejudism anywhere. Whether the skin is white, red, yellow, or black, if you are in Caledonia and you screw up, you get arrested. Plain and simple.

    “Wait…Wait… I take that back. There “IS” a 2-tiered legal system in place in Caledonia. People are getting arrested all over the place. That is except Gary McHale. With all the crud he’s pulled, he hasn’t been arrested yet. Let me see… tresspassing, inciting a riot, holding a parade without a permit, noise pollution (ever hear his speeches?), air pollution (just look at him), slander… I’m sure there is more. Before you get too far ahead of yourselves by saying Gary was arrested along with Mark Van Der Maas ( BTW… That is the correct Dutch way to spell the name… wait… did I just insult the Dutch?) or is it Vandermass… whatever. They weren’t arrested. The were held in custody without being charged. It happens all the time.”

    I could spend a bit of time citing facts that could easily dispel the falsities in these quotes. The name calling is self-evident. By the way, ‘Ed’ is right about the Dutch way of spelling my name. I just use the Canadianized version. No problems there.

    In fairness to Ed, however, I did give him a bum rap in my posts, hence the sincere apology, and that could be at least partly responsible for his words and his perception of me. I can’t entirely blame him, but if he wants to be called a real ‘journalist’ by readers like you, he needs to learn not to let emotions get in the way of facts. I use emotion a lot on VoC, but I still strive for perfection in my facts. Obviously, as Ed has shown, though – I’m not perfect.

    Ed, I’m not mad at you, but if you do read this I’d be interested in knowing if you’d be willing to discuss fixing up some of the stuff that you’ve published about Gary and me?

    As far as those responsible for the garbage written about us, I suspect that he/she/they completely destroyed their credibility with their irrational and whacky accusations. You can fool the media once or twice, but in the end, they’ll eat you alive once they know you’re full of dog-doo. Why do you think no one’s interviewing the mouthpieces for the DCE criminals anymore?

    We will raise flags on Saturday – non-violently – or we will go to jail trying. That is my promise. Gary and I both suspect however that the OPP will not dare touch us, especially given the announcement that VoC/CWUC expect to be making tomorrow. Stay tuned!

    Well, must go to bed now. Tomorrow’s going to be a pretty exciting and interesting day I ‘spect. It’s 0357, but I wanted to get your comment up before I closed up. Thanks for the great thoughts. I’ll be in touch. Mark

  3. VoC, whether you brought them in or not, there were a handful of neo-nazi’s at the march for freedom. theyre easily identifiable and i could pick them out of the crowd in the 10 minutes i was there. there is also video and interviews with them while at the march. the fact that you dont confront them, makes it seem like you dont mind them being there.

    VoC REPLY: Hi ‘jp’. You commented on another post, I think and I can’t recall which it was. It’s really tough to find a particular comment on the WordPress system so forgive me if I repeat something.

    I think your questions are legitimate, but they’re based on some unfair assumptions:

    1. You’re assuming that I did notice these ‘neo-nazis’ and did nothing while I was putting the flag up on the pole by the Canadian Tire police line, speaking on the hill, walking through the field, confronting the brave OPP pole protectors, sitting in the road, having the flag ripped from my hands and getting arrested. Either you notice something or you don’t. I most certainly did not see anyone around that I would have identified as a ‘neo-nazi’ during the times that I was doing all the other things listed above.

    2. Your question supposes, too, that even if I was able to identify them as neo-nazis, that I would have the right or ability to do anything about their presence. This is a democratic country and and I can’t decide who gets to come to Caledonia. Believe me, Gary and I both do NOT want any ugly incidents, but even the police can’t do anything about them if they’re not breaking the law. Now, if they were doing something that may be legal but offensive/unhelpful/provocative like yelling slurs or burning native flags or handing out flyers, and I saw it, I would certainly confront them. I have, on several occasions, reminded a resident to remain calm and not to exchange insults when he was being deliberately provoked. Fortunately, the residents of Caledonia have behaved admirably in the face of extreme provocation, but if they don’t listen to me, there’s nothing I can do about it.

    Now, if I had any reason to believe that any group or individual was coming to Caledonia to actually commit violence I would certainly report it to the police, irrespective of how I feel about the job they’re doing.

    We have come a long way by being peaceful, and we want it to stay that way.

    3. Now, if you’re saying that – and I’m not trying to put words in your mouth here – we shouldn’t hold lawful protests and exercise our constitutional rights because a racist nitwit(s) could show up and cause trouble, that’s a valid question. My answer probably won’t make you happy, though: In the absence of a clear and present danger to people at the march, I have no intention of allowing the police or the DCE criminals to intimidate me into giving up my constitutional rights to protest peacefully and erect flags as protected by the Supreme Court of Canada.

    The OPP needs to understand that they are not above the law, just as the DCE criminals are not above the law. In actual fact I think the OPP may well be a greater danger to democracy that the criminals. They’re supposed to know better.

    4. What – exactly – does a ‘neo-nazi’ look like? How is it that you can spot them so easily, if they’re not doing anything disruptive? I really don’t know – I’ve never met one that I know of. Do they all have shaved heads and tatoos and doc martin boots like in the movies?

    5. Just had a revelation! Are you sure you’re not thinking of ‘timmer?’ He does his best to provoke confrontations just so he can film them and make the residents look bad and – come to think of it – he does bear more than a passing resemblance to a stereotypical neo-nazi that you’d see on TV minus the doc martin boots. He got a little ‘talking to’ by the police before the Lions Hall meeting on Jan 14th, by the way. You sure you didn’t see Timmer?

    I know you didn’t accuse me/us of having links to hate groups here, OK? I’m just venting a little… Honestly, I think the media’s getting more than a little tired of chasing bogus allegations by our opponents trying to play the ‘white supremacist/neo-nazi’ card. If you read the post above, the Spec as much as said it to me. It’s getting old fast. You could see it on Gary’s CHTV interview above – they raised it briefly at the end and dispensed with it. If there was even a whiff of a neo-nazi link, the media would be all over it like a hungry dog on a T-bone. Next!

    Of course, there’s always the ‘outsiders’ issue…but that’s going to be solved…real soon. I promise.

    Thanks for writing, ‘jp’. Mark

  4. I am very perplexed as to the mind set of non-native people. They talk about a two-tier justice system. Where in the hell do they think this two-tier justice system came from. Prior to contact native people had an organized society in place with rules and laws for their communities. The non-natives came in and imposed another justice system, due to the fact that they were ignorant to the laws of natural justice. I wonder if the Chinese came over to this country and took over by way of murder, thievery, robbery if they then could begin to feel how the original inhabitants of this continent now feel. There is not one non-native person, who would not be just as angry as the native people are today. So as we say “never judge another person until you have walked a mile in their moccasin’s. I think people need to take time to understand what this fight is all about, because the mere idea of being taking over by the chinese is not that far fetched and may be closer than one thinks. Maybe then you non-natives will begin to understand what it is like to have something imposed upon you, which you cannot understand. One only fears what they do not understand

    VoC REPLY: Hi Thunder Minds. Thanks for writing. I’m really swamped with stuff right now, but I did want to get your comment up so I could point you to two of what I think are the most important posts at VoC. Could I ask you to take a look at them, and send whatever comments you have to either one of those posts, OK?

    To get to them, go to “Mediation & negotiation with natives? Yes. With sociopaths? No.” At the top of that post, there’s a link to “Does past oppression justify present violence. VoC gets ‘real'” Make sure you read that one, too.

    Thanks, Mark

  5. Definition of a “racist” :

    1) Anyone winning a rational argument with a fanatic

    2) anyone who questions the lack of properly filed title deeding by contestants in a historical revisionist land title claims

    😉

    Take heart Mark, by these definitions there are a lot of so-called racists around who support truth, justice and the rule of law…and at the rates the political fringe spews this epithet out it has become so discredited that it is absolutely meaningless other than a hollow cat-call from a vindictive moonbats.

    VoC REPLY: Thanks for writing WL. Those are great definitions. I would argue that it should also allow for the possibility that if those on the native side can prove they were somehow cheated out of what was rightfully theirs, we have an obligations to address that – but not while there continue to be criminals holding stolen land in Caledonia with the permission of the Ontario government. Hey WL, this has got to be one of your shortest comments ever. Thanks, I haven’t had a lot of sleep lately, so I appreciate the brevity. 🙂 Regards, Mark

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