VoC letter to McMaster University President

UPDATE 2156 EST Feb 14/07: VoC reply to concerns/questions of a McMaster University student. See comment below from ‘Proud McMaster Student.’ 

UPDATE 1140 EST Feb 14/07: 1. Blogger goes to defence of McMaster critics. 2. Audio recordings of Hazel Hill meeting.
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VoiceofCanada sent the letter below by both email and fax to the President/Vice-Chancellor of McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario after a Professor Sorger responded to a Caledonia resident who was concerned about the scheduled appearance of Hazel Hill at the University on Feb 12/07.

a-channel-jan-19-07-screen-captures-001.jpgIt appeared to me that Dr. Sorger was not only buying into propaganda that the Caledonia terror campaign was ‘peaceful’ but that it was justified because of our country’s treatment of Aboriginal peoples.

The professor also seemed a little too willing to believe – and repeat – ‘misinformation’ about Gary McHale (and me, by association) with respect to our non-existent alliances with racist organizations.

[Click on the photo to see VoC’s appearance on A-Channel News the day prior to the Jan 20/07 March for Freedom event. DIAL-UP (2:10 mins)] =======================================


2inch_voc_logo-url.jpgBY FAX, EMAIL

February 9, 2007

Peter George
President and Vice-Chancellor
McMaster University
1280 Main Street East
Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4L8
Fax: 905.522.3391
email: pgeorgeatmcmaster.ca, presdntatmcmaster.ca

Dear Mr. George:

1. My name is Mark Vandermaas. I am the editor of VoiceofCanada.ca, and – along with Mr. Gary McHale – am a co-organizer of recent March for Freedom events in Caledonia. On December 16, 2006 Mr. McHale and I were arrested by the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) for trying to raise a Canadian flag, a right guaranteed to us by the Supreme Court of Canada in a 1993 decision in the case of Ramsden v. Peterborough (City).

2. I am writing today in an attempt to advise you of my concern that I may be slandered at an upcoming presentation at the University. In a reply to a Caledonia resident who was concerned about the appearance of Hazel Hill and Chief Allen McNaughton at McMaster scheduled for February 12, 2007, Dr. Sorger said the following:

“The meeting is not about hate mongering,…”

“I have also seen those same people at the McHale rallies, where there is a faithful following of white supremacists, who have the nerve to wave my flag.”

One blog recently reprinted a Jan 20/07 article by Hazel Hill in which she is quoted as saying the following:

“I had thoughts about the vision of Gary McHale once again coming into the area in an attempt to instigate violence…”

“I thought about the people at Kanonhstaton who continually uphold the peace, and the strength that is required when idiots like McHale are allowed to continue with their white supremacist campaign of hatred and racism.”

I am a former Canadian soldier and United Nations peacekeeper. I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of a white supremacist organization and, to the best of my knowledge, I have never even met a member of such an organization. I also have a Level II (Secret) Security Clearance from the Canadian government. I believe in the Rule of Law and Equality before that law, so the concept of racial supremacy is contrary to my beliefs and my words and my actions with respect to the situation in Caledonia.

With respect to Mr. McHale, in all the time I have known this man, I have never heard him make a single slur against native peoples or any other group in society.

Despite all evidence to the contrary, supporters of the Douglas Creek Estates occupiers as well as certain officials within the Ontario Provincial Police and the Ontario Provincial Police Association (OPPA) have made outrageous allegations against us that cannot be substantiated because they simply are not true. In the coming weeks we will be taking appropriate legal action against these groups, individuals and their sponsors in order to mitigate the damage done to our reputations.

Please be advised that, should Hazel Hill attempt to link me in any way – directly or indirectly – to white supremacist groups or claim that I am deliberately attempting to provoke violence and/or hatred, or that I have committed criminal offences in Caledonia, or should she make any other untrue statements about me during her presentation at McMaster University on February 12, 2007, I will instruct my solicitor to take whatever action he deems appropriate against Dr. Sorger, and the University. I would expect Mr. McHale to take similar action.

3. In the interest of education and understanding, I would strongly encourage both you and Professor Sorger to visit http://www.VoiceofCanada.ca and read the following posts:

Jan 21/07: OPP & OPPA vs. Supreme Court of Canada and the Charter of Rights & Freedoms (link is on right side bar; scroll down to see)

Jan 04/07: Does past oppression justify present violence? VoC gets ‘real’
(to locate this story, type the title into the search box)

While you’re at VoiceofCanada you may also wish to see the photos from the ‘peaceful’ Caledonia occupation. Just click on ‘CALEDONIA PHOTOS’ in the top menu. Be sure to read the Class Action lawsuit document while you’re there. I think you will be as puzzled as I am that McMaster University would invite anyone who has tried to justify the lawlessness depicted while libeling law-abiding citizens who seek only to restore the Rule of Law in Ontario.

While I do support the right of your University to encourage discussion and learning, I would appreciate that it be done with at least the appearance of fairness. I know I can speak for Gary McHale when I say that we would be pleased to organize a fact-based presentation for and by Caledonia’s residents should you wish.

Note that this letter will be posted at http://www.voiceofcanada.ca.

Thank you for listening.

Mark Vandermaas, Editor
VoiceofCanada
Box 210-1326 Huron Street
London, ON N5V 2E2
http://www.voiceofcanada.ca

[VoC email address deleted – please use form below if you wish to provide VoiceofCanada a comment on this post/letter]

CC: Dr G. Sorger, by email only to: sorgeratmcmaster.ca
Gary McHale, by email only to: infoatcaledoniawakeupcall.com

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Reply from Mr. George, Feb 09/07 1606 EST:

Good afternoon,I have received a number of emails today from people interested in a discussion taking place at McMaster this coming Monday regarding the dispute in Caledonia. The emails represent a broad range of opinions from those who don?t feel the event should be held, those who feel it will be an unbalanced presentation, and to those who applaud giving a forum to the guest speakers.

This range of responses demonstrates again that reaching consensus on these types of issues can be very difficult. It also reinforces the need for respectful discussion, debate and dialogue. That does not mean, however, that every event is going to give equal representation to all sides of an argument. The perspective to be delivered on Monday night was of particular interest to the organizers. Many of you have shared your thoughts with professor George Sorger on whether this is the best approach to take and he is aware of your concerns.

While universities are natural locations for public discussion, having such an event on campus does not and should not be equated with the University as an institution taking a stand on the issue in Caledonia. I have said before that McMaster has not and will not take a position on the dispute and we are not changing that view.

Individuals are free to hold their own opinion. Individuals are also responsible for their own actions. It is my expectation that the discussion on Monday will be conducted in a respectful manner.

Yours sincerely,

Peter George

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Peter George
President and Vice-Chancellor
McMaster University
Hamilton, ON L8S 4L8

VoC Reply to Mr. George, Feb 09/07, 1701 EST:

Dear Mr. George:Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email/fax; I do appreciate it.

I completely endorse your institution’s right to hold frank and open and controversial discussions even if the guests are not providing accurate information.

My concern, as an associate/co-organizer of Gary McHale is that the university is allowing a professor to offer a forum to someone who has already made unsubstantiated allegations against Mr. McHale. This same professor apparently shares Ms. Hill’s views and has also passed on the essence of these allegations to at least one member of the public. This causes me great concern as I now have little confidence in Dr. Sorger’s willingness or ability to prevent Ms. Hill from libelling me.

I am also troubled that you failed to address my concern in any way by – for example – assuring me that the University will not tolerate the making of libellous statements by its professors or invited guests.

May I also note that you failed to mention whether or not you or Dr. Sorger had taken the few minutes required to read the VoiceofCanada articles mentioned in my letter. I can only assume that you have not.

In summary, it appears to me that the University is not taking my concern about potential slander very seriously.

Regards,

Mark Vandermaas, Editor
VoiceofCanada
http://www.voiceofcanada.ca

VoC Comments:

mcmaster_how_to_be_dce_supporter.jpgI spoke to Gary McHale this afternoon. His suggestion was that if McMaster University wants to avoid associating itself with extremists, they might want to read some of Hazel Hill’s other writings. Here are some links:

Nov 05/06:

“Is Canada telling us that they are planning to herd us into their “gas chambers” to continue the Canadian U.S. holocaust? Watch out! You might end up in there yourself.”

“Canada, the lawless nation, has the nerve to call Six Nations “lawless” and terrorists” [It’s calling the kettle black]. We follow the principals of our own law, the Kaierenekowah/Great Law. We never ceded jurisdiction to the Crown. We aren’t “Subjects”. We are “Allies”. [Complete opposites].”

Oct 19/06:

“What part of WE ARE NOT CANADIAN, is it they don’t understand. And how do you get it through their thick skulls that the laws of Canada do not apply. We are a Sovereign Nation.”

“CANADA IS PART OF THE SIX NATIONS TERRITORY!!!!!”

Aug 11/06:

“We just wanted to ensure the many many supporters that we have out there, that our position has not changed, and we are maintaining our peaceful presence on the land.”

[VoC comment: Ms. Hill’s statement re maintaining a ‘peaceful presence’ seems somewhat at odds with the reality as shown in these photos.]

July 25/06:

“In spite of all of the attempts by Canada to undermine our authority and to threaten violence in the name of peace, this land reclamation is something they should be proud of because we are being peaceful, we are upholding and respecting our law, and we are upholding our responsiblities to our future generations.”

[VoC comment: Again, Ms. Hill’s idea of ‘being peaceful‘ seems a little extreme to me!]

Dec 26/06:

“Having said that, the first thing I have to take issue with, IS the Federal representatives reason for taking issue with my updates. Their concern was with my use of the word Genocide and how I refer to their actions as “the continuance of the genocidal practices of the Crown”. Well, HELLLLOOOO! Spot it you got it I say. Perhaps they took issue with the fact that it is the TRUTH, and while they might not like it, it is a FACT. One of their legal representatives is apparently Jewish and felt that my use of the word was inappropriate becuase of the suffering of the Jews at the hands of Hitler. Well as a matter of clarification, Hitler studied the Onkwehonweh and while I have been told that he liked how our people lived and how our law worked, he also seen how Western Civilization treated the Onkwehonweh, and he modelled the treatment of the Jews after THAT and so YES!, Geneocide is an ugly word, but no one people can take ownership of the word, and those that do, need to study a bit more of where it comes from and how it even became a word in the english dictionary in the first place. It came from the treatment of the Onkwehonweh by those who invaded our homelands and tried to wipe us out for their own benefit and gain. So as far as I’m concerned, the Crown IS continuing with its genocidal practices because of its insistance on thinking it has some sort of governance over our people, which they do not; and by their refusal to uphold the Treaties to which their ancestors swore to, which they are obligated to do. ”

“Along side of Gary McHale are the homeowners who claim that the “Native’s from the Site” broke into their home and vandalized it. They have Mayor Trainer of Caledonia and MP Toby Barrett going on national television, and in their house of commons blaming our people for the vandalism and continuing with their claims that there is no peace within Caledonia, and that they are constantly being terrorized. It does’nt take a genious to figure out that perhaps there is some dirty pool going on with this so-called break in. First of all, if there was truly a break-in and vandalism, WHY would you compromise the evidence by inviting CH TV Channel 11 in to take footage, and have half the neighbourhood in there trapsing through and eliminating any chance of the police being able to do a thorough investigation because you’ve compromised the crime scene. Also, if it was one of our people from the site, there should be alot of mud in the crime scene and foot prints leading to and from the house as they claim the ‘individuals’ ran out the back when they got home and went into the reclamation site. Our men did our own investigation and can clearly see there were no footprints leading to or from the house from the site, and for all of those who came to the site when the homeowners had the media and their supporters there claiming the natives had broken in, calling us names and holding signs that read “Peaceful People my Ass”, everyone who was on the site had their shoe sizes enhanced by a couple of sizes from the mud that caked on their shoes from walking in the field next to the house, so don’t tell me that anyone from the site did this. It was a staged set up, and poorly done I might add. They’re either stupid or think we are. Our people are fully prepared to co-operate with the police to ensure that this is investigated thoroughly because we know it wasn’t any of our people from the site, and we know a set up when we see one.”

[VoC comment: Sure, the residents destroyed their own home just to make the DCE criminals and their supporters look bad! Give me a break. CHTV Dec 17/06 (2:22 mins)]

Dec 07/06:

“The protesters got angry when the OPP stopped them from hanging [their dirty laundry] across the road from our site. They thought they had a right to hang their Canadian flag on land they know is not “Canadian” soil.” 

REFERENCES

Feb 09/07: KyleStubbins.com – McMaster Professor discusses issue with Caledonia resident Kyle takes on Dr. Sorger for his ‘defensive’ stance with a resident who asked if they were going to allow the Caledonia residents to provide their perspective at the Feb 12/07 presentation at McMaster by Hazel Hill and other pro-occupation speakers. Kyle also took the good professor to task for his attempt to link white supremacists to Gary McHale and the March for Freedom events. Very nicely done!

Feb 12/07: Audio Recordings from McMaster presentation –

1. Intro – George Sorger
2. Chief Allan McNaughton
3. Chief Leroy Hill
4. Hazel Hill
5. Nation to Nation
6. Great Law of Peace
7. World Comparison
8. United Steel Workers
9. Confederacy Negotiators
10. Canadian Flag Upside Down
11. It’s Not Negotiable
12. Archaeology and Development
13. Gary McHale
14. I’m Mohawk
15. Negotiations
16. We let you stay

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5 responses to “VoC letter to McMaster University President

  1. Thank goodness for your voice and Gary McHale’s. We are truly alone on this island of insanity aka Caledonia. This is my letter to George Sorger:

    Dr. G. Sorger:

    To truly understand the situation in Caledonia, you must do two things. Visit our town and speak directly to the residents, especially those who back onto the disputed land and try to distance yourself from Native issues, real and imagined.

    The occupation of DCE is not a Native issue. It is a criminal coup that has left the residents of Caledonia and Six Nations fighting for their very existence.

    Past injustices do not usurp the Rule of Law. I am a woman. To say that my gender has been discriminated against is to minimize our brutal history; a history wherein we have been chattels with no legal rights to property or our children; a history wherein we can be institutionalized with forced sterilization because we have displeased a male in our lives; a history wherein we have been murdered and abandoned because of society’s moral standards.

    That does not give me the right to break the law and cry historical malfeasance.

    I am appalled that you have been tricked into so readily picking up the “Racist Card”. Racism exists in global abundance. It is the most powerfully evil word on this planet. Every person who blatantly uses this word to rebuke someone who disagrees with their actions or view point is guilty of minimizing the apocalyptic power of Racism.

    Aboriginal people have legitimate land claims that must be addressed. They must be addressed in our legal system. If their case isn’t moving fast enough, then they should light a fire under the well tailored derriere of their barristers. If that doesn’t achieve the desired results, fire them. Take your protest, en mass, to Parliament. Write. Call. E-mail.

    The criminal element on Douglas Creek Estates have taken advantage of the Liberal Provincial Government’s fear of a repeat of Ipperwash on their watch and have successfully used Terrorist tactics to force This Government into yielding to extortion.

    I would expect that the Liberal Provincial Government is one of the largest contributors to the coffers of McMaster University. I don’t suppose that has any bearing on your decision to exclude an opposing view to your up-coming Forum?

    Beth Hutchison
    Resident Caledonia

    VoC REPLY: Thanks so much for writing Beth, and for holding these ‘educators’ accountable. Now that I have been involved in the struggle against Two Tier Justice for the past 5 months, I can most definitely understand why you feel that you are ‘alone on this island of insanity aka Caledonia.’

    I expect the criminals and their supporters to propagate lies and deception in order to deflect criticism of their evil deeds, but it is absolutely beyond my comprehension that a professor with a Doctorate level degree can be so ill-informed as to the reality of what is going on in a town that is just a few miles down the road, and doesn’t seem to want to know. That he would seriously try to justify the terror in Caledonia based on past injustices is incredible.

    If the good professor is looking for injustices to rectify, why doesn’t he focus on the fact that the OPP can suspend the constitutional rights for law-abiding non-natives at will while at the same time granting extra-judical rights to native suspects? I should have also included a link to, “VIDEO EVIDENCE: Two Tier Justice – By the Numbers” in my letter.

    I spoke with Gary McHale today. His comment was that if McMaster University is looking to avoid extremists, they should take some time to read some of Hazel Hill’s writings. I’m going to add some links at the bottom of the post.

    Some day, somehow, Caledonia will no longer be alone in a sea of insanity, I promise!

    Regards, Mark

  2. A Proud McMaster Student

    I am a McMaster student. I would just like to inform the authors and contributors of this website that, as students, we are not mindless sponges who believe every word that is taught by our professors. At McMaster University we have available to us ALL view points and are gladly given any information available on issues we wish to learn more about. More importantly, we are encouraged to take education into our own hands and inform ourselves about issues we are drawn to. Above all, we are taught to THINK CRITICALLY and analyze every single piece of information we are exposed to.

    It angers me that anyone would assume that the students of McMaster cannot THINK FOR THEMSELVES. As you can gather from the fact that I have taken the time to visit your website, as many students have, I am fully capable of educating myself about both sides of the issue. So, I encourage and invite all people, of any opinion, to come to our school and speak on behalf of a cause. However, LEAVE THE DECISION TO US whether or not to absorb their values and support their cause.

    The fact that you would object to a presentation by your adversary insults the students of McMaster. If you want our support, insulting our intelligence is not the way to go about getting it.

    Please email me a response, I would love to hear what you have to say. Thank-you, a proud McMaster student

    VoC REPLY: Hi ‘Proud Mac Student!’ Thanks for taking time to write, I really appreciate it because you have raised a very important issue so let me try to give you a considered response (I can see the makings of a great post!).

    1. First of all, I’m sorry it took so long to get your comment up. For some reason the WordPress system dumped it into the spam folder. Fortunately, I do take time to check when I empty it, so I just came across your comment a few minutes ago.

    2. I didn’t go to Mac myself, but I was born in Hamilton and lived many years there. Although I’m not an ‘alumni’ I did win First Prize in the 1999 McMaster University Business Plan Competition with a real estate-related concept. A little irrelevant trivia before we get into the heavy…stuff.

    3. DID I ‘OBJECT’ TO A PRESENTATION BY AN ‘ADVERSARY?’

    When I found out about the planned presentation at Mac, I wasn’t really that concerned, and I had no plans to contact the professor or the president. Canada is – outside of Caledonia – still a free country where people can exercise their constitutional rights, one of which is free speech. I believe in the old saying: “I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it – provided it’s not slanderous or hate speech.”

    As you may be aware from my letter and other posts at VoC I am a former soldier and peacekeeper, and I take the values and freedoms we have as Canadians very, very seriously. I completely support the University’s right to have anyone speak to its students – even though they may be diametrically opposed to me; even though the evidence shows that their words ring false, even though they have viciously attacked my motivations and even though they may be trying to excuse what cannot be excused. None of these things would cause me to try to convince a professor or your university’s President that the meeting should be cancelled or that a speaker should not be allowed to appear, and – as my letter indicates – I certainly did not do so.

    I do very much believe that universities (and the world at large) should be places of raw and unfettered discourse where each student can sift the wheat from the chaff, and make up their own mind. The right to free speech, however, even in a university setting, is not absolute. There are reasonable limits on it to protect society and individuals from harm – to their reputations, to their freedoms and to their persons. That’s why we can’t yell ‘Fire’ in a crowded theatre just for fun; it’s why we can’t promote hatred against other human beings and it’s why we can’t make up and/or play a part in spreading lies about people we don’t like. ‘Raw and unfettered discourse’ does not include allowing professors or guests or students to libel or slander people. Such actions can have serious consequences, including injury to life and limb.

    If you’ve read any of the posts on VoiceofCanada, you know this site is all about equality, respect for the law and building bridges with native people of good will. Despite this, I have been subjected to constant false and disgusting attacks on my character and reputation by supporters of the Douglas Creek occupiers. Gary McHale has been threatened with death by those opposed to our work in Caledonia. Believe me when I tell you that every time I go near a window in my home, I wonder if someone’s going to take a shot at me. Both of us have been victims of a smear campaign by the OPP and the OPPA (Ontario Provincial Police Association) for trying to peacefully restore civil rights in Caledonia.

    When I heard about the Mac presentation for Feb 12th, I assumed that Professor Sorger was a fair-minded, responsible mentor trying to give students access to a side of the Caledonia agony that he felt should be heard. The fact that the presentation was going to made by my ‘adversaries’ didn’t bother me enough to write. What really concerned me is that Professor Sorger seemed so biased and prejudiced against a resident asking a reasonable question, and so willing to believe and pass on misinformation about McHale and me that sounded suspiciously similar to Hazel Hill’s own hateful words (see my letter). In my opinion, Professor Sorger was not interested in hearing information that would conflict with his one-sided mindset and border-line libel, and I had no reason to believe that he would constrain the speakers should they attempt to slander me/us. My fears proved to be well founded.

    At one point in the meeting an individual claimed to have evidence that people like Gary McHale (and me, I guess) who are “claiming to speak for all non-natives” are somehow encouraging or in league with neo-nazis who “have been handing out leaflets literally calling upon white Canadians to kill native people.” “And these are the people who claim to speak for us.” [audio recording # 13. Gary McHale above]

    (For those interested in the truth about my alleged links to white supremacist organizations, you may want to read, “MarKKK Vandermaas: VoC slandered again (yipee!)” and “Caledonia criminals sink to a new low – if that’s possible“)

    McHale and I are in the process of taking legal action against those individuals, organizations and media outlets (including blogs/websites) that have repeated nonsense like this, including the Ontario Provincial Police Association.

    In summary then, I wrote to the President of McMaster University, not to ‘object’ to the presentation, but to make him aware that I/we would not tolerate slander by his professors or invited guests.

    4. DO I THINK UNIVERSITY STUDENTS ARE INCAPABLE OF THINKING FOR THEMSELVES?

    Actually, I have more faith in your ability as a student to discern truth from B.S. than in your professors who spend their lives immersed in the world of academia. In fact, I’m impressed as hell that you have actually read something on VoiceofCanada; if you review my response to President George’s ‘canned’ response to my concerns you will see that I note he didn’t mention whether or not he’d actually read the two posts I suggested to him. You’re already way ahead of your ‘instructors,’ most of the politicians in Caledonia, and the brass at the OPP and OPPA – and I don’t say that lightly! (If you only knew!) At least you’re trying to understand. At least you’re willing to ‘engage.’ So far, they’re not.

    While I do have complete confidence in your ability to seek and evaluate knowledge from other sources like VoC, I must say -in defence of the Caledonia resident who asked if the presentation would include their point of view – it would be nice if someone at Mac sponsored a presentation on behalf of the resident’s point of view in the interests of education.

    I remember Gary McHale telling me a few weeks back that he was interviewed by a York University student as part of a class assignment. They spent quite a bit of time discussing McHale’s beliefs, and the student – of native heritage – remarked several times during the interview that McHale wasn’t anything like what she’d expected.

    As Dr. Phil would say, no matter how flat you make a pancake, there are always two sides. With the greatest respect to Dr. Phil, I would add that you don’t get to see what the other side of the pancake looks like unless you invest the time and energy to flip it over. Believe me, ‘Proud Mac Student’…I have infinitely more faith in you and your contemporaries than you can imagine. Just remember to always turn over the pancake. 🙂

    5. SHOULD YOU BE ANGRY AT ANYONE?

    I accept that people are drawn to issues. I couldn’t stop doing what I’m doing any more than I could stop breathing. I’m sure that Professor Sorger feels the same. But, there’s a big difference between us – I’m not a teacher employed by a taxpayer funded institution of higher learning. I think you should be asking why a professor seems so willing to believe the worst about McHale and me despite all evidence to the contrary. Ask him if he’s actually read a single VoC post. Question his dogmatic and insulting responses to a simple question from a victim of the pain of Caledonia who suffers ongoing intimidation (vandalism of her home) simply for standing up for her community. If you’re going to get mad at someone, get mad at the person who’s paid and entrusted to provide you both sides of an important issue, but chooses not to.

    6. AN EXERCISE IN CRITICAL THINKING AND B.S. DETECTION, IF YOU’RE WILLING…

    Here’s a good exercise for you or a friend or a class: take my list of questions from, “Caledonia land claim bogus? 16 Questions for investigators, and see if you can get some answers from the parties concerned. So far, no one in the mainstream media has bothered to do so, so you can scoop them all. If you’re willing, send me your name, phone number and address (so I know who I’m talking to), and I’ll provide you with whatever contact info I have that can help. I’ll even post the results of your investigation on VoC in a separate post.

    I hope this addresses your concerns. If it doesn’t let me know, and I’ll try again. Thanks again for writing. Regards, Mark

  3. Hi Mark;

    I have commented on Mr. Sorgers email discussion with a resident of Caledonia. I have also emailed Mr. Sorger, have received one “canned” response and am awaiting further response.

    I won’t waste your space/bandwidth here as it is a little lengthy. You can find it at http://kylestubbins.com/node/59

    Just doin’ my part! 😉

    Regards;
    Kyle Stubbins

    VoC REPLY: Hi Kyle. This is the second time I’ve had the honour of thanking you for a post on KyleStubbins.com.

    Kyle went to the defence of the people who wrote to Dr. Sorger who responded to their legitimate concerns with – in my opinion – undisguised hostility and bias, not to mention the slurs against us mentioned in my post. Thanks for the support, Kyle. You’ve earned a place in my blogroll. Thanks for “doin’ your part!” Regards, Mark

  4. Found it rather tough wrenching some objectivity or acceptance of differing viewpoints out of the campus political commissars? 😉

    Can you imagine the political harrasment a student holding views contrary to the prevailing politically correct status quo of the Campus left guard has these days.

    I have hours of tales I got from young people trying to start something as simple as a campus conservative or Christian associaton at McMaster ( although they have liberal, marxist muslim and even a hamas group on campus). I wish the campus authorities would keep their partisan bias out of administrative business…but it appears that is not to be.

    Good work getting a differing viewpoint heard at this MacMaster politically correct love in with SN fanatics.

    VoC REPLY: Thanks for the compliment and the oh-so-correct observations, WL. Just to be clear, though, I do not think that the DCE apologists represent all Six Nations people – quite the opposite, actually.

    1. Nice to hear you’ve got some first-hand experience with the subject of ‘selective free speech on campus.’ I remember a ‘well-educated’ relative with a Doctorate telling me that I shouldn’t go to university because I would be ‘shunned’ for being a member of the Reform Party.

    2. I don’t have a problem with a professor believing whatever he/she wants – no matter how ill-informed – but at least have the intellectual integrity to admit that there’s another point of view that students may wish to hear so they – as ‘Proud McMaster Student’ said – make up their own minds. As I said, I have more faith in the students than the instructors.

    This whole McMaster affair brings to mind a quote from (I think) Oscar Wilde,

    A man is not necessarily educated no matter how instructed he may be.”

    Thanks for writing WL. Mark

    P.S. If any student at Mac is prevented from starting a student organization related to DCE from the residents’ point of view, well…that would be a fight Gary and I would be very interested in taking up on their behalf. Naturally, I know we could count on you, too.

  5. A Proud McMaster Student

    Hello again, I’m sorry it has been awhile since I had the chance to check back here.

    I want to thank you Mark for getting back to me, I appreciate that very much. Just to let you and WL Mackenzie Redux know, we do have some conservative and Christian associations at McMaster, more than a few actually and they are seen around campus quite regularly. One of the reasons why I am so proud to be a student at McMaster is the wide diversity of our student community. I also believe that the only reason why a club might not receive McMaster’s approval is if they were spreading hate. I also do not believe that we currently have students doing so publicly on campus.

    I would like to say that I have seen first hand, and through my studies, that some viewpoints are more popular at McMaster than others. I also know that universities in general can sometimes give the illusion of providing a place of higher learning, while in actuality, can produce a latent function of blinding its students from the real world. However, the students here do a very good job of immediately questioning anything they find unfounded. I personally require more than the word of my professors before I make judgements based on their teachings. I do want to say this; the professors that I have had the opportunity to learn from are some of the most enlightening, critical and remarkable people that I have met. I also would like to say that the majority of, I would even say all of the most brilliant, thought provoking, and influential people of this world were deemed dangerous, outrageous, and a menace to the norm of society.

    While some might disagree with me, I believe that the history of a people, how irrelevant you think it is, still is. Everything that this world is today has come from our past and if we are not to learn from it, than we have wasted a resource greater than the most gifted minds of today. One of the things that I keep hearing and reading that angers me the most is that the history of the native people does not justify their actions today. While it may not justify it, as nothing can justify violence of any kind, it does matter and must be taken into consideration. It is their past that influences who they are, what they believe in their heart, the decisions they make and the actions that result from this. More importantly it affects us, who we are, what we believe of them, the decisions we make and the actions we take in relation to them.

    The native people of Canada are a beautiful piece of who we are. It really pains me to see so much hate directed at a few who cannot help but feel angry about the tradition and culture they have lost, a way of life they have been stripped of, a quality of life that is so much less than the majority of non-native Canadians. Canada is the sum of many cultures that have come from their homeland to make a place for themselves here on Canada’s glorious land. I think we forget too often that for the native people, this is their homeland; they do not have the option to go back to a place rich with their heritage. This is their heritage.

    What is Caledonia really about? What are we really fighting for? How much are we willing loose over these 40 hectares of land? I am a white, female, middle-class, born and raised Canadian. I am privileged. I have not had my culture taken from me, I have been treated with racial discrimination, I have not been afraid to declare to others my ethnicity, I have not been taught to be ashamed my language, my tradition. I have not been told that I am not a legal Canadian. But I am still able to recognize that this has happened to others, to an entire population for many years. I recognize my privilege as I think too many of us Canadians do not. With that recognition, I know that it is my duty; it is my responsibility to do something about it. As a student, as a social worker, but more importantly, as a human being, why should I fight on the side with the upper hand, the privilege?

    There is no one party, no side in this conflict that should win. There is no reason why we cannot make peace right now. There is no reason why a few people (on either side) should prevent us from doing what is right and coming to a peaceful transcendence. I am not a conservative, I am not a liberal; I am a humanitarian. I believe in people, I believe in understanding and I believe that we are better than petty squabbles over land, over money, over declaring who is right and who is wrong.

    What I am saying may sound to you like naïve ramblings of an sanguine student, but ask yourself why you do not want to believe it. The only thing that is stopping us from a resolution is our close-mindedness. What are we clinging to so tightly that makes us so stubborn not just to get over ourselves and be moral human beings?

    P.S. This may not be the place to post such comments but I’ll leave that to your discretion.
    P.S.S. If you kept reading to this point, thank-you for your time, René (Proud McMaster Student)

    VoC REPLY: Hi Rene/Proud McMaster Student (sorry, I can’t figure out how to put the accent on the second ‘e’.). Thanks for the reply. Thanks also for the P.S.S. – I read and respond to everything people send unless it consists of hateful insults or off-point, irrelevant generalities. You covered a lot of ground in your reply, so let’s consider what you’ve said one thing at a time. This is going to take some time, so bear with me!

    1. YOUR ORIGINAL COMMENT:

    In your original comment you said that you were angry because you felt that I and others who provided comments assumed that students of McMaster “cannot THINK FOR THEMSELVES.” You said that you are “taught to THINK CRITICALLY and analyze every single piece of information we are exposed to.” And, you said that I insulted the students of McMaster because of “the fact that you would object to a presentation by your adversary.”

    I did not take offence to your ‘accusations,’ nor do I. That’s why I provided a point-by-point explanation to address – in great detail – each of your key concerns. In fairness to myself and to my readers, however, I have to point out that your current comment/reply has not addressed or acknowledged my counter-arguments to you. Since you have remained silent on them I must ask you some questions before I can respond to the new issues you raised:

    a. Are you satisfied that I did not, in fact, ‘object’ to the pro-DCE occupation presentation on Feb 12/07, that my concerns, as expressed to McMaster’s President were based on the genuine fear that I would be slandered during the presentation, a fear that proved to be well-founded given the disgusting remarks made by an audience member?

    Did you read the two posts I recommended (“MarKKK Vandermaas: VoC slandered again (yipee!)” and “Caledonia criminals sink to a new low – if that’s possible“)
    with respect to my alleged and non-existent links to white supremacist organizations? Do you agree that VoiceofCanada and the struggle against Two Tier Justice is about the Rule of Law and Equality before the law, and NOT about supremacy.

    c. Do you agree that Professor Sorger’s comments to a Caledonia resident who asked a simple question as to whether or not the presentation would include their point of view do indeed seem insulting, and give the impression that he is not interested in presenting both sides of the issue for the benefit of his students?

    d. Are you satisfied that I did not insult the ‘critical thinking skills’ of McMaster students (or any students!)?

    Further to that question, I suggested that you or a friend or your class might try to answer the questions posed in “Caledonia land claim bogus? 16 Questions for investigators.” Did you read the post? Are the questions worth answering?

    2. REPLY TO YOUR CURRENT COMMENT…

    a. FREE SPEECH ON MCMASTER CAMPUS

    Nice to hear that Mac is open to various clubs and ideas. Here’s a question that springs to mind: who at the university determines whether a club is spreading ‘hate?’ Professor Sorger, Hazel Hill and at least one person in the audience on Feb 12th have tried to link March for Freedom events and the organizers (including me!) with hate messages even though we consistently talk about the Rule of Law and Equality. (I wonder if any of them have actually read VoC.) In your ‘professional’ opinion, could someone at Mac organize a club devoted to, say, “Preserving the Rule of Law and Civil Rights During Land Claims?”

    b. GREAT OBSERVATION ON YOUR PART!

    “I also would like to say that the majority of, I would even say all of the most brilliant, thought provoking, and influential people of this world were deemed dangerous, outrageous, and a menace to the norm of society.”

    I seem to recall a saying about how truth goes through 3 stages: violent opposition, ridicule and acceptance. Given what McHale’s been able to accomplish in just a very short period of time, it seems to me that we’re in the latter portion of the ‘ridicule’ phase of his message that the Rule of Law and Equality before the law should apply equally to all Canadian citizens. (How these concepts ever came up for debate in the first place is a frightening question in my mind!).

    You might be interested in a post I did about McHale after the original March for Freedom in October 15/06. I wrote it in response to a critic of McHale’s ‘presentation’ of himself and his message. It’s called, “If Gary McHale could do it with kiddie GIFs, imagine what YOU could do!” It explains what one imperfect, committed person armed only with the truth and a website can do to make a difference in the history of our country.

    c. DOES PAST OPPRESSION JUSTIFY PRESENT VIOLENCE?

    You made the following statement(s):

    “I believe that the history of a people, how irrelevant you think it is, still is. One of the things that I keep hearing and reading that angers me the most is that the history of the native people does not justify their actions today. While it may not justify it, as nothing can justify violence of any kind, it does matter and must be taken into consideration.”

    I have explored this topic in great depth (and with great personal honesty and self-discovery) in two separate posts with two separate readers who wrote in to initially criticize me, and I encourage you strongly to read them and get back to me with your comments. They are:

    1. “Does past oppression justify present violence? VoC gets ‘real’

    2. “Mediation & negotiation with natives? Yes. With sociopaths? No.

    As a social worker, I think you will find our exchanges very interesting. The second exchange didn’t begin too well, but I think you’ll love the ending.

    d. WHO IS DIRECTING ‘HATE’ AT NATIVE PEOPLE?

    “The native people of Canada are a beautiful piece of who we are. It really pains me to see so much hate directed at a few who cannot help but feel angry about the tradition and culture they have lost, a way of life they have been stripped of, a quality of life that is so much less than the majority of non-native Canadians. Canada is the sum of many cultures that have come from their homeland to make a place for themselves here on Canada’s glorious land. I think we forget too often that for the native people, this is their homeland; they do not have the option to go back to a place rich with their heritage. This is their heritage.”

    Let’s get specific here, OK? Who is it that is directing all this ‘hate’ against native people? It’s not me, it’s not Gary McHale, it’s not anyone involved with us, and I’m pretty sure that the Government of Canada isn’t doing it at this time in our history. That leaves a few nutcases on the fringes and a very few residents who let their anger over the terror campaign perpetrated against their town get the better of them during confrontations that occurred prior to McHale organizing the March for Freedom events.

    I have been the victim of numerous racial slurs and hateful remarks at the hands of the DCE criminals and/or their supporters as has McHale. You should have been with us when 75+/- DCE occupiers called us every name in the book on January 20/07 as we stood there silently holding our Canadian flags. Even they, however, got tired of screaming their own filthy words and turned around and left when they realized that we couldn’t be provoked after listening to their insults for about half an hour. (I’ve got pictures and some video of it that I have yet to post. CHTV also ran their own footage of it.) Despite the slurs I have been subjected to, I would never argue that native people as a group are directing hate at me as a white person. It’s a small group of organized criminals trying to deflect criticism from their evil.

    I think what I’m saying is that racism and hate aren’t a ‘white’ thing or a ‘non-native’ thing, but a ‘human’ thing.

    e. WHO WAS HERE FIRST – AND DOES IT MATTER?

    If you want to get ‘technical’ about who was here first, the people of Six Nations did not arrive here until after the first European settlers. In fact, they came from New York State. I know a lady whose family pre-dates Six Nations in Haldimand by approximately 40 years.

    Personally, the whole ‘who was here first’ argument is ridiculous to me, especially in a multi-cultural society like ours. The implicit premise of it is that human beings who arrive in Canada, or whose birth pre-dates another person’s should have more rights and privileges than those who arrive afterward. Based on that dubious theory, one could argue that I should have more rights than an immigrant who arrives next week, and that I should somehow be exempt from the Criminal Code because of my tenure – a silly argument at best. I don’t want to live in that Canada.

    f. WHAT IS CALEDONIA REALLY ABOUT?

    Ahhh, the million-dollar question!

    “What is Caledonia really about? What are we really fighting for? How much are we willing lose over these 40 hectares of land?”

    1. Gary McHale and I are fighting so that our country remains a democratic society based on the Rule of Law, and Equality before that law. I don’t want your children to have to live in a country where some groups in society are allowed to terrorize other people into getting what they want.

    2. What are the DCE occupiers fighting for? That’s why I wrote “Caledonia land claim BOGUS? 16 Questions for investigators” and why I suggested that you or your class apply some critical thinking skills in an attempt to get some answers to them.

    I suspect that when the real story is written about the Douglas Creek Estates, we will discover that it had little to do with a legitimate land claim and everything to do with a small group of criminals seeking money and power for themselves. I don’t have the evidence to prove it – yet – but someone with more resources may be able to dig out the truth.

    3. How much are we willing to ‘lose?’ Take a look at the photos of what Caledonia has been through thanks to the DCE criminals. If we allow these thugs to get anything out of this other than jail cells, we will eventually lose our country to civil war because we will be sending a very powerful message to evildoers that they can use violence to get whatever they want just as long as they label it a ‘land claim’ tag.

    Civil war is the inevitable result when the Rule of Law is abandoned. As I said during my ‘Blue Beret’ speech on Jan 20/07:

    “I have seen the burned out tanks in the desert and driven carefully through the mindfields. I have driven through the streets of the Gaza Strip where today there is civil war because there is NO rule of law.”

    I hope that you will take my word for it, Rene, you wouldn’t like to live in a country where violence is tolerated as a solution to resolving past injustice.

    I think what I’m saying is that I would ask you to separate the organized gangsters and thugs, and their apologists from the honourable, law abiding peoples of Six Nations. I think it is wrong for people to assume that they are one and the same. In my opinion they are not.

    What is at stake in Caledonia? How much are we willing to lose? How much is the Rule of Law worth to a country? How much would the people of Iraq (and the U.S.) or Palestine pay to create a society where the courts are used to settle disputes instead of weapons? The land value of the Douglas Creek Estates is a tiny insignificant cost when compared to the damage being done to our country by allowing criminals to intimidate our government and our police into suspending my constitutional rights (you knew I was one of three people arrested for trying to raise a Canadian flag in Caledonia, I assume?).

    g. PRIVILEGE AND RESPONSIBILITY

    You said…

    “I am a white, female, middle-class, born and raised Canadian. I am privileged. I have not had my culture taken from me, I have been treated with racial discrimination, I have not been afraid to declare to others my ethnicity, I have not been taught to be ashamed my language, my tradition. I have not been told that I am not a legal Canadian. But I am still able to recognize that this has happened to others, to an entire population for many years. I recognize my privilege as I think too many of us Canadians do not. With that recognition, I know that it is my duty; it is my responsibility to do something about it. As a student, as a social worker, but more importantly, as a human being, why should I fight on the side with the upper hand, the privilege?”

    It kind of seems that your argument is based on the assumption, since you are privileged, all white people are privileged and all native people are un-privileged. (If you’ve read “Does past oppression justify present violence? VoC gets ‘real’” you know that’s just not true. I don’t think you should choose who to fight for based on the level of ‘privilege’ you think they have. I think you should choose to defend justice, to oppose violence, and to eliminate suffering for its own sake. What about helping this ‘white, middle-class, priviliged woman’ from Ipperwash:

    “[OPP officer] had us terrified to go back into our home. [My husband] was a wreck because he had very little sleep since the death of Dudley George and the desertion by the police. He felt he had to protect us alone since no one in authority would come in and help anyone. He is diabetic and his blood sugar was really unstable at this time with the stress. My nerves were so bad that [my husband] had to take me to see my doctor. I could not sleep and by this time my hair was coming out in chunks.”

    “During the upheaval and afterwards several police officers and Native leaders were given special consideration for healing sabbaticals. I cannot recall any residents suffering the effects of criminal offences, property invasions, thefts, harassments and break and enters ever being referred by anyone to victim services. No one considered those who had nervous break downs, could not work, suffered marriage breakdowns or those who eventually ended up abusing substances because of the post traumatic stress caused by no law and order. We did not cause the events of 1995. In fact for years before we tried to let all levels of government know that aggression and discontent by the native faction was escalating in this area. When the OPP became totally unavailable and redundant, we asked for RCMP to come in and were denied. We, ourselves, became victims for years of additional native aggression for absolutely no reason other than that those involved in criminal activity knew that the policies were in place that give them complete autonomy from the law.”

    I know that, as a social worker and human being, you are drawn to the ‘underdog’ as are most people. Sometimes, however, the ‘underdog’ just isn’t who you think it is. Stay tuned.

    Thanks for writing, Rene. Sorry it took so long to get this reply up; a lot is happening right now. Mark